News from Vault Creek
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- Iron Miner
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Re: News from Vault Creek
So far I’m incorporating several things to make for a safer work situation. I’ll have a 130’ retracting life line that will connect to a harness I’ll wear while starting down in the shaft. Since I have no idea at this point how much ice is blocking the open shaft I need to be prepared should I break through. Once I have the shaft cleared I’ll attach the life line to the man lift (elevator). Also I’m using a more industrial type elevator hoist with heavier cable. On the bucket hoist I’m running 7/16” wire rope instead of 1/4”. The elevator is a bit larger than the last one and I will add waist high rails to prevent falls.
- Lanny
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Re: News from Vault Creek
This really is an interesting thread. Thanks for the tag-along.
All the best,
Lanny
All the best,
Lanny
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- Iron Miner
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Re: News from Vault Creek
Not an awful lot to report. The cold has been so brutal it is difficult to get much productive work done. But it is getting done. The additional light from longer days of sun helps mentally and even in -30 temps I can begin to feel a slight bit of warmth from its rays. I also think I'm finally getting used to the cold. My favorite phrase is "it's what you get used to". Don't get me wrong, though, I can't wait for warm weather to return even though I know mud and mosquitoes will be back to bring their own brand of misery. Life goes on
I've tabled my plan to use wireless controls for my hoists and am back to setting up wired switches. It's a lot more work setting up but probably more reliable. I also got my lifeline set in place and it looks like it should work well. In the extreme cold the 3/16" wire rope line retracts very slowly, probably due to very stiff lube. My plan is to place a silicone heat pad on the housing and cover it with an insulating blanket. So, if all goes well i'll be hoisting by the end of the week. Thanks for your interest. Stay tuned.
I've tabled my plan to use wireless controls for my hoists and am back to setting up wired switches. It's a lot more work setting up but probably more reliable. I also got my lifeline set in place and it looks like it should work well. In the extreme cold the 3/16" wire rope line retracts very slowly, probably due to very stiff lube. My plan is to place a silicone heat pad on the housing and cover it with an insulating blanket. So, if all goes well i'll be hoisting by the end of the week. Thanks for your interest. Stay tuned.
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- Iron Miner
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Re: News from Vault Creek
I’ve heard it is official...coldest winter in Alaska on record. Now that doesn’t mean we’ve had lots of -60 temps as happened back decades ago. It that -20’s and -30’s have persisted almost without letup for more than two months. Through it all I’ve gutted it out to get myself down to the shaft to get at least something done. The increasing daylight, bright sun and calm days have made getting out a bit easier. I think I’ve also gotten used to the cold. Nevertheless, I’ll certainly welcome the coming warming trend. So am I getting anywhere with the shaft? You betcha! Hoisting debris began on Monday and I now have all the rotted cribbing, frozen muck, ice and snow removed from the top 5’ of two sides of the shaft. The jack hammer works well for shredding the old black spruce. The electric chain saw not so much. I’ve hoisted about 10 buckets(1/4 yard each) so far. I have a some bugs yet to work out with the hoist, but in general I’m pleased with the way things are going. More soon
- Jim_Alaska
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Re: News from Vault Creek
That sounds like some real progress Kurt. Since I have walked where you work and even experienced the extreme cold, I can identify with your unique Alaska problems. I was in Prospect Creek on January 23, 1971 when the coldest recorded temperature was set -80-F. There is no way to explain to people just what that kind of cold is like. It is actually ominous; you step out into it and have the immediate feeling of extreme danger.
Working in temperatures like you experienced is certainly possible, but it gets old real fast. When I lived there I also trapped, my partner and I had a cut off temperature of -40-F. Riding a snowmobile is brutal at temps that low, as well as dangerous.
People in the lower 48 have a hard time believing what Alaskans tell them about living in the cold temps of Alaska. This is especially true when we try to tell them about working and driving in those temps. Things like how cold affects even steel seem impossible to people until they experience it. Loggers and wood cutters routinely experience shattered ax heads and logging chains, they get so brittle from cold that they snap easily. "Don't touch that metal door knob, or any metal with your bare hand". This is one of the first things about cold that you learn real fast.
They smile when we tell them about engine heaters, transmission heaters, seat heaters and even steering wheel heaters. Some of this is probably not true of the newer vehicles any more, but I am sure you can't do without at least engine and transmission heaters. When I first went to Alaska you even had the change the grease in your wheel bearings to a winter viscosity and your differential also. Suffice to say that at this stage of life I do not miss those things.
So as I follow along with your adventure I can also relate to working in those cold temps; especially at Vault Creek, which is a low muskeg area, very susceptible to ice fog from the Chatanika River. Now as it starts to thaw the problem of water seepage will begin. There was a time before I began mining and when I was trapping that someone in the area just before Vault Creek was working a shaft and I was told that they installed some kind of refrigerated or freezing unit over the shaft; it looked like a small shed. I can't remember the name of that little place on the Elliot where there are some old cabins, it seems like it may have been called Chatanika, but not sure. Have you ever heard of that operation? It seems like this was way back in the mid-to-late seventies.
But I am stealing your thread, keep up the good work and please keep us in the loop. Be safe as you do it Kurt, safety first.
Working in temperatures like you experienced is certainly possible, but it gets old real fast. When I lived there I also trapped, my partner and I had a cut off temperature of -40-F. Riding a snowmobile is brutal at temps that low, as well as dangerous.
People in the lower 48 have a hard time believing what Alaskans tell them about living in the cold temps of Alaska. This is especially true when we try to tell them about working and driving in those temps. Things like how cold affects even steel seem impossible to people until they experience it. Loggers and wood cutters routinely experience shattered ax heads and logging chains, they get so brittle from cold that they snap easily. "Don't touch that metal door knob, or any metal with your bare hand". This is one of the first things about cold that you learn real fast.
They smile when we tell them about engine heaters, transmission heaters, seat heaters and even steering wheel heaters. Some of this is probably not true of the newer vehicles any more, but I am sure you can't do without at least engine and transmission heaters. When I first went to Alaska you even had the change the grease in your wheel bearings to a winter viscosity and your differential also. Suffice to say that at this stage of life I do not miss those things.
So as I follow along with your adventure I can also relate to working in those cold temps; especially at Vault Creek, which is a low muskeg area, very susceptible to ice fog from the Chatanika River. Now as it starts to thaw the problem of water seepage will begin. There was a time before I began mining and when I was trapping that someone in the area just before Vault Creek was working a shaft and I was told that they installed some kind of refrigerated or freezing unit over the shaft; it looked like a small shed. I can't remember the name of that little place on the Elliot where there are some old cabins, it seems like it may have been called Chatanika, but not sure. Have you ever heard of that operation? It seems like this was way back in the mid-to-late seventies.
But I am stealing your thread, keep up the good work and please keep us in the loop. Be safe as you do it Kurt, safety first.
Jim_Alaska
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- Joe S (AK)
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Re: News from Vault Creek
Jim,
I, also, have experienced that temperature.
I had to extrapolate (figure out) the air temperature from an old style mercury tube thermometer and every word you wrote is exactly what I found to be the case. As with you, minus (almost exactly) the same temperatures way back in early '67 at a place called Mendeltna Creek (now even on the map at Mile 152 of The Glenn Hwy). Not just dangerous but rather extremely un-nerving and filled with absolute caution.
Pretty tough on a then Chechocko to learn so much so fast - but harsh things were learned quickly back then.
Back then we all "Played for all the marbles" in cases like that and the penalty for a mis-step was swift and permanent.
So Kurt - Go for it (but be very cautious, eh!)
Joe
I, also, have experienced that temperature.
I had to extrapolate (figure out) the air temperature from an old style mercury tube thermometer and every word you wrote is exactly what I found to be the case. As with you, minus (almost exactly) the same temperatures way back in early '67 at a place called Mendeltna Creek (now even on the map at Mile 152 of The Glenn Hwy). Not just dangerous but rather extremely un-nerving and filled with absolute caution.
Pretty tough on a then Chechocko to learn so much so fast - but harsh things were learned quickly back then.
Back then we all "Played for all the marbles" in cases like that and the penalty for a mis-step was swift and permanent.
So Kurt - Go for it (but be very cautious, eh!)
Joe
Determination, Tempered in the Heat of Stubbornness,
Really Gets Things Done!
Really Gets Things Done!
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- Mega Miner
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Re: News from Vault Creek
Old, Bold pilots;
I'm an "OLD pilot". Please note, "There are NO OLD, BOLD pilots".
The same goes for mining and miners! There are NO OLD, BOLD miners...
Personally, I try to lead by example. That means when I sink a shaft or prepare to enter a shaft, there are certain steps in the process that allow me to grow old!
No GUTS, NO GLORY!
There's NO GLORY in ending one's life at the bottom of a frozen hole. Actually, the news will reflect a story that will probably focus on the negative side of the risk involved and the lack of proper safe guards that led to the tragedy. The story will be written by MSHA investigators. They will as a matter of looking into the details of what was NOT done properly - "the root failure", according to established mine safety rules and good mining practice. Every MSHA training class in the future, will discuss what happened that day and why.
Every time ANYONE decides to venture underground, absolute certainty has to be in place that those persons will return to the surface safely.
1. A collar. At the surface, a collar is designed and put in place that provides the support for a super structure in the form of a head frame and sub structure, ladder, elevator, draw works, etc.
2. A ladder for entry into the shaft is suspended from the collar. A rope and harness with snatch block.
3. Cribbing and related horizontal cross beams and vertical framework to support the pressures created at the walls of the shaft and prevent loose rock from falling into the shaft.
4. Safety doors that are normally closed and only open upward that are positioned at short intervals in the shaft.
There are many sources of information that provide the details of how and why to do this the right way and eliminate the risks and dangers.
- Geowizard
I'm an "OLD pilot". Please note, "There are NO OLD, BOLD pilots".
The same goes for mining and miners! There are NO OLD, BOLD miners...
Personally, I try to lead by example. That means when I sink a shaft or prepare to enter a shaft, there are certain steps in the process that allow me to grow old!
No GUTS, NO GLORY!
There's NO GLORY in ending one's life at the bottom of a frozen hole. Actually, the news will reflect a story that will probably focus on the negative side of the risk involved and the lack of proper safe guards that led to the tragedy. The story will be written by MSHA investigators. They will as a matter of looking into the details of what was NOT done properly - "the root failure", according to established mine safety rules and good mining practice. Every MSHA training class in the future, will discuss what happened that day and why.
Every time ANYONE decides to venture underground, absolute certainty has to be in place that those persons will return to the surface safely.
1. A collar. At the surface, a collar is designed and put in place that provides the support for a super structure in the form of a head frame and sub structure, ladder, elevator, draw works, etc.
2. A ladder for entry into the shaft is suspended from the collar. A rope and harness with snatch block.
3. Cribbing and related horizontal cross beams and vertical framework to support the pressures created at the walls of the shaft and prevent loose rock from falling into the shaft.
4. Safety doors that are normally closed and only open upward that are positioned at short intervals in the shaft.
There are many sources of information that provide the details of how and why to do this the right way and eliminate the risks and dangers.
- Geowizard
- Joe S (AK)
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Re: News from Vault Creek
I have been a licensed pilot for over 50 years. (although I don't fly anymore)
I was bold (not to be confused with stupid or incompetent).
I am old now.
So yes, by definition, I am an Old, Bold Pilot.
So much for old, worn out sayings from the '40s.
I was bold (not to be confused with stupid or incompetent).
I am old now.
So yes, by definition, I am an Old, Bold Pilot.
So much for old, worn out sayings from the '40s.
Determination, Tempered in the Heat of Stubbornness,
Really Gets Things Done!
Really Gets Things Done!
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- Mega Miner
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Re: News from Vault Creek
Old bold pilots;
"Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots." – E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
Every year when I return to Alaska, I learn of lives lost due to Bold pilots.
I am saddened when pilots take risks and they die and often take other lives in the process of showing off how bold they are.
I have been a pilot for 51 years. I maintain current proficiency as a Commercial Pilot. I lead by example. Miners need to lead by example too! Taking risks will eventually lead to a sad end, It proves nothing.
- Geowizard
"Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots." – E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
Every year when I return to Alaska, I learn of lives lost due to Bold pilots.
I am saddened when pilots take risks and they die and often take other lives in the process of showing off how bold they are.
I have been a pilot for 51 years. I maintain current proficiency as a Commercial Pilot. I lead by example. Miners need to lead by example too! Taking risks will eventually lead to a sad end, It proves nothing.
- Geowizard
Last edited by Geowizard on Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Mega Miner
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Re: News from Vault Creek
I have your back;
In the mining world, miners are brothers and we watch each others back. That might be something as simple as seeing someone else doing something that is not safe and stepping up to the situation and sharing advice on how to do the job safely. It's one way that we watch each others back.
I hope having a discussion on the subject will at least stimulate awareness.
- Geowizard
In the mining world, miners are brothers and we watch each others back. That might be something as simple as seeing someone else doing something that is not safe and stepping up to the situation and sharing advice on how to do the job safely. It's one way that we watch each others back.
I hope having a discussion on the subject will at least stimulate awareness.
- Geowizard